"Nazi Germany cared more for Culture than the current Polish government"

«MS: In the commentary about politicians from the Civic Platform with regard to their projects to reform the public media or financing of culture, there seems to be a lot of dissapointment. Agnieszka Holland wrote an open letter criticizing this notion that Culture is the best area for budget cuts and achieving savings. Would Polish culture survive without government funding?

Krystian Lupa: Of course - when culture isn't helped by the government, it tries to survive using other means. In Poland, however, culture has always had government help, and the specific structure that culture has taken in Poland isn't one that can be done away with easily. But, you can also see the problem in a different light. How? Well - can the government afford to ignore the necessities of cutlural policy, to leave culture to fend for itself? What would that mean? It would of course mean the commercialization of culture and making it wholly dependent on market demand, on the subjective whims of the society. This also means the amputation of the most important root of culture. If the government wishes to nurture a society which is healthy and creative and effective - even economically effective - then it cannot just cut culture loose. This is not tantamount to asking the government to run culture and decide about everything. Sartre once said that the wisest governments know how beneficial it ultimately is to have and nurture a sphere of free culture.

MS: What is the role of the public media in terms of creating culture?

KL: It is huge. Or at least it should be huge. The public media cold be doing a lot - a lot more than we are even able to imagine. But, if we look at what Polish public television offers - it's completely not using the potential that public media gives it as a beacon of cultural acts and works. The public media seem to be suffering from inertia. The passively accept the passing needs of the market which is the worst thing you can do. In fact, they don't really even fulfill the needs of the society.

MS: Why? People prefer to watch dancing competition shows instead of theatre on television.

KL: Are you sure? That's the thinking of numerous so called clever people, who all think that people desire the lowest and most vulgar forms of entertainment. In countries with a long and rich capitalist tradition in which culture functioned, people turned up whose imaginations were bigger than the petty strategies of petty street vendors. These people actually managed to realize that ambitious art was something that could also turn a profit, and that there was sufficient market demand for bold works. In Poland, this is all ahead of us - I hope.

MS: Recently, there was a protest of the state owned radio station number 2. Currently, due to the public mission of the radio, it can't make money off of commercials. What would the collapse of this radio station mean for Polish culture?\

KL: It would be an embarassment. But I think we still need to do some work to convince some people in power just what an embarassment it would be.

MS: Lots of critics are using some harsh words in criticizing the governments plans with regard to culture. Wojciech Kilar said in one interview that it seems the government has a long term strategy to dumb down the public.

KL: I would not think that the government actually has a demonic plan with regard to culture, nor do I think they are capable of doing things consciously. You can't really draw an analogy to Goebels' comment about culture and revolvers. But while we're on the subject - the government of NAZI Germany took better care of culture in Germany than our politicians do here in Poland. It's true that they tried to use culture to fulfill terrible ends. But they were at least conscious of the grand meaning and power of culture. The approach of our politicians to culture and to artists is full of ignorance. Politicians have become specialists in everything, and they think they are capable of reforming and retinkering everything even though they are actually farther and farther away in their knowledge, particularly in the realm of the humanities. They actually treat culture and artists as competition - because culture and artists command the attention of the public - and politicians would prefer to have it for themselves.

MS: What about Jerzy Hausner's project for reforming Polish culture?

KL: These kind of ideas have a terrible tendency to constantly return - almost on a cyclical basis. They are the fruits of average imaginations. The ideas do not comprehend culture as a living mechanism and would leave decisions to committees of mediocre judges. It's almost as if they don't appreciate just how alive culture is in Poland, and want to make it yet another dead area of public life.»